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TV programme terry pratchett the right to die {BBC2}



  • backache99 said:
    i think you can only understand pain if you have lived with it ..and its living with it and coping and trying to make the most of life with pain is a very hard thing for us to do ..if you can function well and hold down a full time job and enjoy sex you have NOT reached the point at where you are feeling the kind of pain most of us on here are living with every day.

    Thanks very much. When Karen went down initially I thought she was punking me! She was a class clown! After the second time of me saying "Come on Karen, quit fooling around and get up." I realized that something was seriously wrong. We were in front of the administration building, so getting help fast was easy. That day my young stupid belief of being invulnerable to death was zapped into reality!

    I fully agree with how it went when you were younger (healthy) concerning the older co-worker and his "back pain." When I was younger I looked at some people that complained of constant pain, or had limitations with a 'humf' attitude. After I crashed my helicopter at the tender age of 21, and realizing how close I came, that whole attitude changed. It's amazing how life's experiences change our perspective.

    Truer words couldn't have been said Tony! I quoted what you put as a descriptive to our pain, so, so true! I know you have seen some of these. A new member comes on, screams that they are living daily with neck or back pain ranking it a 8-10, but they in the next paragraph state they play golf regularly, or touch football, tennis etc. Yeah, okay...(G)

    I never know what is going to be the issue when I wake up. My neck and back at times "fight" for the most attention; which of course means who has the higher pain levels! Like you, gained a lot of weight, and barely fit in my clothes - have to suck that belly tight to button my jeans! I can't use my elliptical bike because the bike seat lets my back wiggle and that is megga painful. Because of leg weakness, I can't work out on my stair stepper tread mill. I did find a way to exercise a bit without increasing the pain factor too much. I bought an elliptical "In Motion". You sit in the chair of your choice, and this is placed right in front, and you peddle away! It counts calories, steps, distance and time. My butt doesn't wiggle, so the back is not disrupted, and I can get some exercise. I try to do an hour a day - most times broken into 4 15 minutes sets.

    I'm trying to keep to at least doing some peddling. My pool turned green for some reason overnight, so my hubby 'shocked' the pool and added tons of chlorine. I hope that works because the water is finally warming up. I MISS my aqua time! (G) Until my hubby builds the shallow steps, I wait till he gets home to help me navigate the ladder. Otherwise I won't swim as I don't trust my legs, or my arm strength to climb that ladder solo!

    Back on track a bit... I agree there are some in chronic pain that pulled the pin. I too am not one that even entertains the thought of doing it, or having someone "assist" me in saying 'ahddy-bye-bye' either. I too am not religious. I do believe there is a higher power, and if he/she is there, pulling the pin means I might not get there from here, no thanks. I'll wait till my time comes by my bodies decision, and not a tired, emotion filled brain!

    Most people when they are "that close" to dying know it. I think those are the ones that want a painless bump to finish their journey on this earth. I'm talking about the imminently terminal cases here. Not the ones that "might" die in a few months. I hope that makes sense. I have a feeling that at least in the U.S., end of life scenarios are being looked at more than ever over here. Looked at in those with very little time left. "No extraordinary efforts", "DNR", "No more chemo", etc.

    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • Is already being used at hospitals but in a different way like Brenda mentioned they turned up the Morphine but it was not to kill her but to keep her comfortable and with the effects of the high Morphine that is increased is for people's comfort and then they slip into death. I believe in that as I've cared for many people with cancer as well have had family members have left this way also.

    But I have a lot of strong feelings about things and especially the right to be out of pain especially terminal illnesses but will only follow the Drs orders and hospital policy of course to protect everyone.

    As for having a button to end it is a very Ethical Controversial topic and it must have been sad for you to see that Tony and don't know if I would be able to watch it.

    However with certain diseases in the final stages I don't know but I hope they find a cure soon for many diseases and it's true just because someone has a diagnosis doesn't mean that's it and they will get sick soon and that's not necessarily true and others used to be get sick and die soon illnesses, people are living longer so everyone should see there have been technical advancements so don't be so quick to push that button.

    I really liked your quote Tony
    Tony's quote: GOOD pain care is where we should be heading not self destruction.

    DDD of lumbar spine with sciatica to left hip,leg and foot. L4-L5 posterior disc bulge with prominent facets, L5-S1 prominent facets with a posterior osteocartilaginous bar. Mild bilateral foraminal narrowing c-spine c4-c7 RN
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  • Overdosing patients without their consent may seem merciful and even compassionate, but without their consent is still wrong. I worked in the medical field also at one time and know how common this is. Still it never seemed right, and I can only go with my own moral compass.

    I understand, but just don't feel right about it. Comfort measures are not meant to kill, but that is what it sometimes comes down to. Keeping people alive beyond their time I also feel is wrong. When it's my time I hope (and pretty sure-lol) that they will just let it all be.
  • My dad died when he was 47 of cancer. Those last couple of months, he came home, specifically to die. There was nothing left they could do for him, his body was visibly lumpy from the tumours. As my mom was a nurse, he was a guard at a max pen, between both of the health care policies, we were able to have 24 hour home nursing care for him. When he came home, they said a couple of weeks, tops. He was home for a couple of months. My mom told me much later (like only a few years ago) that he had begged her to give him more morphine than he needed. She was torn. On one hand, here was her husband, suffering greatly, not eating on his own, not breathing on his own, not voiding on his own, just laying on a hospital bed in the living room, waiting to die, and she had to watch. On the other hand, she was a nurse, a health care provider/professional, and had a moral code to live up to, and three kids to provide for solely, after. She didn't. But I'm pretty sure, only because of us.

    Sadly, I've known a lot of people to commit suicide. Job hazard, I guess. My thoughts are, people are going to find a way to do it, whether it's assisted or not. Maybe assisted suicide is a more dignified way of doing it for some people. Maybe they want to make sure it's done properly, so they don't end up living with brain damage, or living with physical reminders of their failure. Maybe they don't want to take the chance that if they do "fail", they might end up more physically disabled and become a burden on their families after. Maybe they don't want to leave a mess for their families to clean up, or to walk in and find them there unexpectedly.

    It's unconstitutional to dictate how a person lives, is it right to tell them how to die? Is it right to help them die? I don't know. All I know is if that's what they really want, that's what they're going to do in the end. Who are we to tell them any different, because, as mentioned before, you don't know how someone else is living, how they perceive their life. And if they don't want to live anymore, they will find a way to make it happen. Assisted suicide is just a "cleaner" way of doing it.
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    1997 laminectomy
    2007 repeat laminectomy and discectomy L4/L5
    2011 ALIF {L4/L5/S1}
    2012 ? bowel problems .still under investigation
    2014 bladder operation may 19th 2014
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  • Tony,

    I haven't watched the show, but [to me] you've described it in enough detail that I feel I understand *why* you are feeling as you are, and I think I can side with you on it. If you still have a functional life, quality and fulfillment, I don't think 'ending' it is right either.

    I do feel they should be allowed a living will of sorts so when they do hit that part of life that isn't going to rebound, and the end is near, your wishes can be invoked. Either way, having had many colleagues over my career 'eat their gun', it beats the trauma of loved ones finding you dead - unprepared, and many times in a messy state. You don't get over finding a loved one with their brains all over the wall...sorry.

    Kevorkian had it right - his "assists" were to people pretty much at the true end...

    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • Oh no, Tony, you didn't offend at all. I do understand where you're coming from, it's my belief that anyone who takes their life prematurely is a selfish, cowardly person who takes life for granted and can't appreciate all that they do have in life. I go through this every time I hear of another comrade who has taken their life. But, as you said, people who truly are at the end of their lives, why should they suffer needlessly and delay the outcome. If I were in that situation, I would want to cheat death and go on my own terms and not fight for my last breath as the pneumonia takes over my lungs. But who knows, those people got up and got dressed, it could be that they did this knowing they wouldn't be suffering for much longer. We don't know what they were going thru before all this, before the cameras got there. We just don't know, and we will never know what thoughts were going thru the person's head before they end it. We can't possibly feel or know the pain and suffering they have gone through to get to that point, as it is all so personal. My point is just that if they want it bad enough, they will find a way to do it. I can only imagine that some would find getting assistance is just a more "dignified" way of doing it?
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
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